The Power of Why, with Cary Weston

October 14, 2020
PRODUCED BY POLLY YAKOVICH

Cary Weston is the person that will cut through the trendy business speak and help define what the real goal is. A fan of function over form, his charge is to ensure that creative doesn’t mask the need and that the work is focused on results. Too honest at times, he believes the world could benefit from some more ‘old-fashioned’ and less ‘bright and shiny.’

Cary is active on a number of community boards and causes, has served as a multi-term city councilor and is a former Mayor of his home town of Bangor. He can juggle, make wine, can say the alphabet backwards, thinks A1 is a national treasure, and once took home a trophy in a stand-up comedy competition.

But the role he loves best is being blessed to serve as a proud husband and dad to a happy and healthy family. He lives in Bangor with his wife Tori and three children.

What you’ll learn about in this episode:

  • How Sutherland Weston was founded fifteen years ago when Cary recognized the need to make some life adjustments, and how the firm has continued to grow since
  • What important lessons and defining moments pushed Cary out of his comfort zone and proved integral to the company's growth
  • Why Cary believes you should find your passion in life and strip away everything else by delegating, asking for help, and learning to say no
  • Why Cary believes that it isn't the products or services you provide that differentiates you but rather the relationships and trust you build that set your company apart
  • Why Cary recommends you ask yourself "why?", and how doing so can help you go another level deeper in your marketing efforts
  • How Cary has built a highly collaborative team and learned to trust their skills, experience and perspectives
  • What differences Cary sees between marketing for B2B and B2C organizations, and why it is important to remember that there is always a human behind the buying decision in both
  • Why sticking to daily routines and developing positive habits has been a cornerstone of Cary's success
  • Why books by author Marcus Sheridan have had a major impact on Cary and how he views his role as a marketer

Additional resources:  

Show Transcription:

Intro:

 

Welcome to A Brave New Podcast, the podcast all about how brave ,entrepreneurial companies are unlocking their business potential using inbound marketing. Here is your marketing expert and host, Polly Yakovich.

Polly:

Welcome back to the podcast. Today, I'm excited to have, as my guest, Cary Weston, one of the founding principals of Sutherland Weston. They are a fully integrated PR and advertising agency based in Bangor, Maine, and they serve exclusively Maine based companies. Cary and his team have been very adaptable and nimble during the last six months of this pandemic and have very ably helped their clients adjust what they're doing and adapt to the changing conditions in the marketplace. We had a really great chat about really the core principles of marketing and how we help our teams stay focused, how we ask the questions, particularly the question why when clients are wanting to go a certain way, or we're discussing new strategies or thinking about how to achieve our goals, and really how to stay true to what we're trying to achieve and how to get there. And he's really got a lot of wisdom and advice. So without further ado, let's talk to Cary. Cary, welcome to A Brave New Podcast. I'm so excited to talk to you today.

Cary:

Hey Polly. Thanks for having me. I appreciate it.

Polly:

Can you tell us a little bit about your bio, about how Sutherland Weston started? Just give us a little bit of your story.

Cary:

Actually, it's funny you say that because I have a business partner, Elizabeth Sutherland. This is our 15th year, so we're about 30 days into our 15th year. So it's real.

Polly:

Congratulations.

Cary:

We can cut the cake now. Thanks.

Polly:

That's impressive.

Cary:

And our story started, and I can tell you this because we wrote it down, because we had this conversation about two months ago because someone wanted to make sure we put it out for our 15th. So our story started in a back table on a Wednesday at an Uno's chain restaurant in Bangor, Maine. So very specific, right?

Polly:

As all good things start. Yes.

Cary:

You going to fact check this? So we both had our own kind of single shops and for various reasons, we came together to work on a particular project. And we started talking about where we wanted to go and what we want to do with our own business. And then I had some family health happenings, let's say. So my father was on medical coma with an iron lung, and my mother-in-law had literally just had a massive heart attack within a few months of each other. So life was getting real, real fast. And my "company," I'll put that in quotes. My "company" was three people, but if I didn't come to work, nothing really got done, right? So I had a job and then I had a couple of people that supported that job, but I really went through a life balance re-evaluation during that period. And I didn't want to have the company that I was building, or had, be dependent on me 24 seven. And so I wanted to build something that was bigger than me that would last beyond me and contribute with a little bit more value than just having people assisting.

 

And so Elizabeth and I had some chemistry and we worked well together, and I was doing things that she wasn't. She was complimenting what I was doing. We had different skillsets, but they kind of... A Reese's peanut butter cup, right? The peanut butter and the chocolate went well together. And so we decided to do it and we scribbled out some names on a napkin at Uno's and we came to the highly creative name of our last names together. That's how we started. And that was 15 years ago. And we're 16 folks now, and the company is no longer just me and some people. In fact, I'm probably one of the most irrelevant people in the company now.

Polly:

That's great. Congratulations.

Cary:

Yeah, thanks.

Polly:

What lessons stand out to you the most about your career journey? What were some of those magic moments and how did you feel like you showed up for them?

Cary:

So I tell a couple stories. I'll tell you one. The memories that stick with me are the ones that scare the hell out of you, either in the moment or right after, right? So one particular story was we were doing some video work at the time, but basically just commercials, and the University of Maine, the state's land grant university, it's about 10 minutes away from the office. And the athletic department had a new athletic director and they were looking for a coach's show. They'd never had a coach's show to highlight the department. And this person came from the University of Miami where they had anything all the time. And so being an alum, I think we were in an article for an alum magazine. And it got his attention so he called us up. And over the course of a few weeks, we talked about building out a half hour television show 20 times a year, and we sold the heck out of ourselves.

 

And then he said yes. And I remember walking out of the office that day and I threw up in the parking lot, because I didn't really know why he said yes. And then the realization of him saying, yes, it's easy to talk about it, but now someone's put their trust in you following through. And we had never done anything like this ever. And that was in mid May. And our first show would be due in September and then every two weeks after that. And it took us the entire summer to figure out how to do that first episode.

 

So there's a few moments like that along the way, where you scare the bejeesus out of yourself by jumping out of your comfort zone. But in hindsight, you figure it out, and it either makes you stronger or you walk away from it and thankful it made us stronger. And we learned a lot from that exercise and the company has grown in that area because of the pain of stretching yourself a little more than you were able to at the moment. So that would be one, is go after some big things, because even if you only get a piece of it, you still move yourself further than you thought you would to begin with.

Polly:

Yeah. There's that famous Branson quote that's like, "Sell it and then figure out how to deliver it later."

Cary:

Right? I have a friend in Orlando who has been working at hotel conferences and running AV and presentations for major hotels for a long time. And their comment is, "Sell the dream and service the nightmare," right? That's how they live.

Polly:

Fascinating, yeah.

Cary:

So I've kind of mentally adopted that. That's what we do a lot of times.

Polly:

As an entrepreneur, with obviously a 15 year successful company, if you could go back and sort of redo one thing or make a different choice, what would that be? What is something that stands out to you as a moment that maybe you wish you had done something else? Obviously buying Facebook stock or something like that, but [crosstalk] what is something that you... Yeah, exactly. What is something you wish you had done differently that maybe would have positioned you otherwise or saved you a bunch of time and headache?

Cary:

So it's a two part answer, and one is relevant to how you and I met. The first thing I would say is not try to do everything all the time and trust that there are people that can make your life better by doing things that you're trying to do. Right? That would be the first thing I'd do is really find your passion, find your sweet spot, find what you're good at, and find what you like. And then just strip away everything else and find other people to do it. That would be the first thing. As small businesses, you'll mow the lawn if the check's big enough, right? I mean, you just want to do everything all the time. You don't want to say no, you want to be trusted and liked and wanted. And so you end up doing everything. And I think just finding the things that make you completely happy and that you really want to do that you're really good at. And then just outsourcing, delegating, or finding ways doing it. Doing that earlier, I think is something I would change.

 

And the second thing I would do is I would go find help. Just like your firm, we joined a cohort affiliation called Agency Management Institute, AMI, four or five years ago. I lose track. I have kids. So everything's either yesterday or 10 years ago. I don't really have a timeline in my head, but I didn't know what I didn't know. And the first 10 years of our business, I feel like we made good decisions based on data we had, based on instinct. And then you learn and then you do it over or you do it again, if you did it right, but boy, it would have been helpful to get the guidance of people who had been there before and kind of could reach down and pull you up. And I feel like I have that in the partnership that we're involved with at AMI, and boy, I wish I'd done it a decade before.

 

So I think finding the passion and then delegating is the first thing, and then aligning yourself with people that understand and that can help with either experience or support would be the second thing. And I wish I had done both early.

Polly:

What skills do marketers need today to be successful? We're in such a unique environment. What do you see when you're working with your clients that you wish that they knew?

Cary:

So there's a couple of questions there. The first thing I think we have a team of account managers and strategists that are front facing the clients, and what I teach them, or I try to teach them on a regular base, is what we do is really a commodity. The end product is really a thing. Don't own the thing, own the relationship. The thing is a by-product of the relationship and they trust us to do that, but they could trust anybody in any given day to do the things. We tend to think that we're valuable and smart, and maybe we are, but at the same time, there's a lot of other valuable and smart people. So we don't get to own that.

 

But what I find is whether it be people that we work with or people that work with us, or just people that you run into in everyday life as a homeowner, right? Contractors, and all the people that you run into, it's not really the thing that differentiates you, it's the relationship and the experience. So the ability to listen and be relatable and have somebody feel heard and valued or respected, listened to. Gary Vaynerchuk has a book called The Thank You Economy. One of his first books was The Thank You Economy. And when I first started reading it, I couldn't get past the first sentence, because I went into what I call the idea treadmill. If you've ever read something, I know you have, and you find yourself two or three pages later, and don't even remember what you've read because your head's just kind of spinning on an idea.

 

So his first sentence of the first chapter was, "Everything is changing except human nature." Right? And it kind of floored me for a second. I put the book down, because he says, "We've invested billions and billions of dollars into software so that we could talk to each other. But we don't talk to each other." And no matter how fancy and fast and super and slick and flashy we get, people still want to be listened to and heard and respected. And that, I think, is what differentiates and separates firms like ours, if we do it well. And that's the hardest thing to sell. The hardest thing to sell is the ability of, "I'm going to listen to you." You can't put that in a proposal. So we try to talk about that all the time. And I think that's a very valuable commodity. A very valuable element of our business is not to be commodity, but to invest in the relationship and not the thing. We're very good at the things, but at the same time, we have to have the support and the trust and the relationships in order to be able to do that.

 

So that's, I think, very, very important. And then you asked me, what do I wish most of our clients knew? I have a presentation that I do. And the beginning of the presentation, I have my 10 rules of marketing. And number seven is, "What you know is valuable." And people don't believe that what they know is valuable. I have a lot of business owners that will tell me, "I know how to do this, this, and this, but I don't know anything about marketing," but they do. Right? And the experiences they've been through, the wins, the losses, the bruises, the trophies, all that stuff is good. That's gold. And if we can just reverse engineer what's in their head, we can be more successful.

 

So they bring something highly unique and valuable to the table. Whether they think they know marketing or not, they know their business, they know their customers, they know the journey they've been on. Whether they've written it down, they know what wins, they know what doesn't work, what works, all that kind of stuff. So bottling that up and kind of reverse engineering into a plan is important. So to answer your question, I wish more business owners realized how important the stuff between their ears really is.

Polly:

Yeah. This is why I really love that you brought up Gary Vaynerchuk because I do think one thing that resonates with me so much about how he talks about marketing is it's really these basic human needs. It's our lizard brain operating most of the time, it's us being pulled in a million directions. And it's really about the right time, the right place. And are you in the places where I'm looking for help? Are you meeting my need in that moment? It's not about people caring intimately about your product most of the time.

Cary:

Right. It's a now economy at the end of the day. That's right.

Polly:

Yeah. Until it benefits them, until they need it, until they're looking, all of those things. Whether that's direct to customer or B2B, all of that. So that leads me to my next question, because I think you and I actually talk about marketing basics a lot, and it seems boring because people want to talk about all the new things and all the new channels and all the options. And I think especially younger marketers get really into sort of niche roles and they find them very important. But you talk about getting clear about the problem with clients. When you couple that with your listening and really understanding clients, how do you help them orient around the problem that they're solving and sort of bring them back to sort of these core marketing basics, even when it's not maybe the most exciting thing? How do you help people orient around those?

Cary:

So I don't use marketing terms, first of all, because nobody cares.

Polly:

Yeah. It's really navel gazing. Nobody cares what you call a piece of premium content.

Cary:

The most powerful word for me is three letter word, why? I just keep asking why. And it's amazing how often people haven't thought that far. They just want, and then you ask why? Right? And they answer it again. And, "Oh, that's interesting. Why?" And then they actually spell out their own problems and we get to the solutions. But sometimes I tell Elizabeth, I think I need sometimes a big leather couch because that's what we do most of the time is just, tell me your problems. Tell me your problems. Lucy with the quarter, with Charlie Brown is basically where we spend most of our time.

 

But that's the answer to the question is try to listen as much as possible, but listen with purpose, right? So that asking why a lot and getting them to go one more level usually helps a lot more than the thing that my pet peeve and my own people, the people that I work with every day will do it. I do it. I'm my own pet peeve at times. But delivering the answer before you've actually had the conversation to me is probably one of the most useless things that you can do because it just violates every possible thread of starting a valuable relationship. And so I think the answer to your question is just getting people to open up about why, and just keep asking. And then we just paint a picture. It doesn't always. The formula isn't always perfect, but that's essentially it. It's just getting people to talk about why.

Polly:

How do you keep people focused on the strategy and the plan when all the shiny objects come around?

Cary:

There's something powerful about documenting what you've talked about, right? Getting folks to agree on something and then documenting it so it's real. And then three months from now, when the bright and shiny, we have clients that do this all the time. We call them squirrel clients. It's just, "Oh, let's do this. Squirrel." The whole dog chasing the squirrel thing. Just the ability to pull up a document and say, "Okay, great. But you remember this conversation and remember this goal? Does this align with it?" Some tough love, you can play teacher or play some tough love at times and you can say, "Well, where does this fit on what we talked about?" And there's sometimes, "I don't care. I want to do it." Or it's, "Oh yeah, yeah. Good point. Well, maybe we should." "Okay. And which one do you not want to do?" "Yeah, we can do that. But which one of the things that you were really excited about two months ago, do you not want to do now?" That kind of thing.

 

Reminding, documenting and reminding is powerful. And I think that's, I don't know if it's the best, but it's certainly for us proven to be the most effective is just reminding people that we've talked about this before and we did make a decision. And so maybe circumstances have changed. Other than you forgetting, maybe circumstances have changed, so we do want to pivot. Or maybe you're just forgetting that we already had a plan and we should stick to it.

Polly:

Yeah. I think it's a really hard discipline because we get caught up in it as well. But asking the question, "Have your goals changed substantially? And the way we need to get there has changed substantially, so we're making these adjustments." It's really hard to stay focused, because I think the core thing about marketing is that it's boring and consistent and practical and methodical, and marketers are creative, energetic, people who want to try new things. It's kind of a challenging practice in that way.

Cary:

So I become the blanket on the campfire there because I have an accounting degree. And so I come at it from a different point of view. I tend to be creative and problem solving, but I do it from a very basic and fundamental point a way, not grandiose, kind of big picture, marching bands and clowns kind of way. And so I'm known to, in brainstorming sessions at the office, it tries my patience sometimes if I'm being honest, because the ability not to say to my own process, "Let's focus," because part of the value of having a group like we have is to let all that craziness out, because something might come from it that you've never thought of before. But I am admittedly highly impatient at times. And so I just want to cut to the end.

 

We did our disc assessment last year on our personality profiles, and I'm a D, so I'm just... If there's 15 steps, I just want to go from one to 15. I already figured out two through 14. I don't need to deal with that anymore. But there are people that need to go through every single step, and I just get impatient.

Polly:

Yeah. Well, that's good, because one of the things I wanted to ask is how do you approach building influence and collaboration around a team, particularly when that team is shared between perhaps your team and a client?

Cary:

So the best thing I've been able to do is build a team, like I mentioned in my first statement, bigger than myself, and realizing that other people's opinions, I'm telling them my weaknesses, my warts, but the ability to trust that other people's opinions and processes and skills are important and is something that I have learned over the last 15 years, more so than I had prior to the business. There's something to be said about realizing that you're not the center of the world and the sun doesn't revolve around you, right? I mean, those are humbling moments in your life. And so like everybody else, you have an evolution of learning, all that stuff. So once you trust that the people that are around you, you hire good people. And we hire people for character, we hire people for hustle, and we try to instill our own values into our company.

 

We have things that are non-negotiable in terms of character and respect. And then we have things that are highly variable, which is the individual personalities that come to the table. But I think that to answer your question, how do you build collaboration? Is making sure that you're clear with your expectations, that we both know what we're working on and what the goal is. And then trusting that the people that you've brought into your organization are part of the solution, and then letting that play out, right? Delegating, trust and verifying. So building teams, there's a lot of trust involved, and positive feedback when it's deserved, and criticism or critical feedback when it's necessary, but then you move on, and it has to be relevant in the moment. And I'm very honest with how I deliver either.

Polly:

Yeah. How does your marketing advice vary for... You deal with all sorts of different kinds of clients and businesses. How does it change for your clients who are talking directly to customers? You talked earlier about, people don't care about what you do until they need it. How does that change for your advice to your clients that are business to business? Are there any core differences that really come to mind when you think about how they market their product or service?

Cary:

So in both avenues, they're marketing to people, right? Very rarely do we bring a company into our living room and get excited about a logo, right? We're always talking about people. And so the buying process is different in B2B than it is for B2C or consumer to business. Right? But the people are the same, so the same person that you're talking about buying a widget for their house has the same kind of life situations of the person that would make a buying decision for business. So understanding that is important. I think there's a lot more similar than different. We know that the ability to show, to answer questions, to provide answers to questions that perhaps the customer hasn't thought about yet, we call it the three ring binder. And there's a story behind that I'm happy to go into if you'd like, but the ability to follow something that Marcus Sheridan calls the "they ask, you answer," which is just getting a brain dump and reverse engineering, all of the questions that you would run into, and preparing useful answers.

 

And then having those, you mentioned it, having them readily available, not at your convenience, but theirs, because it might be 10:00 on a Sunday. It might be 9:00 AM on a Tuesday. However and whenever they decide to actually pay attention to you and make it relevant and valuable. And I think that's true for whether you're selling to a business or you're selling to an end consumer, the ability for them to find useful information that's relevant to them and their needs and the problem they're trying to solve on their own, right? We don't get the chance to own the sales process anymore. We're in a sales environment now. There's so much information available to so many, that if you get the opportunity to have a lead, it's really your job not to mess it up more than it is trying to sell it. Right? And so more and more customers are reaching out after doing their own research. And so if you get the opportunity to be involved in that conversation, it means you've probably done something right along the way.

 

But the more that you can put out information that normally you would have held behind a gate at some point. I remember wasn't too long ago where you had to go see a person with a special computer to talk about buying a house or buying a stock or buying a car, right? There was a guy with a desk or a woman with a desk, and they had a special computer with special information and you didn't, and you had to ask them the question and they had to use the magic box and tell you the answer, and they had power and that's been totally flipped. And now it's up to you just to be responseful and prompt and helpful.

 

So I think whether you're talking to an end consumer or you're talking to a business to business kind of transaction, recognizing that there's a human behind the process is probably the most important thing. And then being as relevant, helpful, and convenient as possible to earn the opportunity from a business point of view is really the core job marketing these days. It's not to make the sale, it's to earn the opportunity to be involved in the sale.

Polly:

That's great. Thank you so much. I just want to ask you a couple last things. For somebody who's a busy entrepreneur, like you are, what tools, what tips and tricks do you use to manage your day and keep yourself moving efficiently? I mean, getting it all done is so challenging. What advice would you give?

Cary:

Find a habit and use it. I know that's really silly generic advice, but there's something to be said by creating a routine. And I have undiagnosed ADD, I'm sure, because I can't stick to anything more than two weeks, right? But I have a couple things in my life that I have been able to stick to that have helped me tremendously. Everything I do from a business point of view finds its way into a note program that I've had for six years. I happen to use One Note with my iPad and my days and weeks and everything are logged, but other people use other things. But having something that you rely on, I think is important. I have totally committed to the digital infrastructure, but there are some people that still like paper. I think that the sooner you can overcome the fact that you don't have to be organized to be successful, the sooner you can forget that, it gets better.

 

Trying to remember everything is not fun. And we have bi-weekly one-on-ones with employees. And I would tell you that probably, we try to have quarterly progress reports and plans, professional goals that we work on and support and nurture. And I would tell you that probably half the time, we're talking about organization and repetition and finding something that works.

Polly:

It's such a challenge.

Cary:

Of course it is. So keeping it simple, but keeping it consistent, and whatever tool it is that fits you is important, but make sure that you're not forcing yourself to use something you don't like, but creating habits is important, right? But it varies from person to person.

Polly:

What are you reading to keep yourself informed? You name dropped two people that I think are brilliant. I do follow Gary Vaynerchuk and I usually follow him on Instagram, because that's my mom's social media of choice, but also Marcus Sheridan. Who are you reading to keep you up to date?

Cary:

Yeah, so I love Marcus. I met Marcus in Portland, Maine. I was going to a seminar, a workshop on a campus that I'd never been to before. And I was lost and I was walking through a random parking lot. And I ran into this guy who had his daughter in tow. He had a suitcase on wheels, and his daughter was probably 12 or 13, and he was lost. And I said, "Where are you going?" He said, "I'm going to this place." "Yeah, I'm going there too. Let's find it together."

 

And then I sit down and then the keynote speaker comes out and it's the guy that I was walking around with in the parking lot, right? And it was Marcus and he was on tour, he was taking his daughter with him on a tour and they were going around the world actually. And he was documenting that. It was a period of time if you look back at his video blogs where his daughter was going around the world with him. And it was kind of cool. But ever since then, that was a good way to get introduced to somebody. So Marcus is someone that I think really I relate to from a functional point of view because he keeps it basic.

Polly:

Mm-hmm (affirmative). Do you set aside as set goal for learning every week? Are you like, "I want to spend an hour a day," or does it vary?

Cary:

Well, I won't prejudge it, but I'm always doing that anyway. I don't have a goal because it's just part of my daily routine where I am still looking stuff up so often that it's just part of what I do. So I've never thought about it that way because I'm a pretty thirsty learner. So I don't have structure to the point of, "I need to learn something new this week," because I've already done it. By 2:00 in the afternoon, I probably picked something up already just because I'm curious that way anyway.

Polly:

Yeah. And you don't feel like you have to protect your time? Is it built into your day that you have enough space to do that?

Cary:

It is, because I make it happen, because I think if something's important to you, regardless of what it is, you make it happen anyway. And curiosity just happens to be important to me. And so I find that I work it in. And when I don't, I feel like I've let myself down. And I wish I felt that way about working out, but no. Curiosity seems to be a vitamin that drives me. And so I've never had a problem researching, finding, learning. I just continue to do it on a regular basis.

Polly:

That's great. Well, we're at time, so I'm going to let you go. But I ask this question of every guest that I have on the show, which is, what is your super power? What do you feel like uniquely allows you to do what you do?

Cary:

I can tell you that if you asked me five years ago or five years from now, this answer will be different. But right now, I can tell you that the ability to still have my kids' attention, the ability to still make them laugh, and the ability for them to treat me the way that they do is probably a superpower as far as I'm concerned, because I know that at some point in the near future, I'm going to be irrelevant to them. And I must be doing something right, because I'm still relevant. So I think in the age of mass criticism and what we would call just social disruption, having kids that still look at you like they want to be with you, they still want to throw a ball with you, still want to listen to you, and think at some level you might still be cool, is a pretty damn cool superpower. And I'm happy to claim that one.

Polly:

That is cool. I want to call it connectedness or something like that. That's great.

Cary:

Who knows what it is? Maybe it's just the fact that I have the wallet and they don't, but I'll take it. I'll take it as a superpower.

Polly:

Thank you so much for your time. This has been so great. I love to sort of peel the curtain back and hear a little bit about what makes you tick and makes you successful. I think you always have something to teach me. So thank you.

Cary:

It's a pleasure to be. I appreciate it very much, and I wish you well. And looking forward to see you again real soon.

Polly:

If you want to hear from Cary and follow some of his thoughts and thought leadership, you can visit the website, Sutherland Weston, and you can go to Our Work and learn and see what Cary's written recently for their blog. You can also follow Cary on LinkedIn, and I will link to all of those things on the show notes.

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